Leaders in Customer Loyalty, Powered by Loyalty360
Leaders in Customer Loyalty, Powered by Loyalty360
Loyalty360 Loyalty Live | Aaron Lobliner, CataBoom
In a rapidly evolving marketing landscape, where engaging and retaining customers is an ongoing challenge for many brands, the concept of gamification has emerged as a captivating solution. By incorporating elements of play into their loyalty efforts, brands have found a powerful means to not only acquire new customers but also keep those customers interested and engaged.
Loyalty360 recently delved into this topic with Aaron Lobliner, Chief Client Officer at CataBoom. We asked him what gamification means to CataBoom, how clients are embracing gamification techniques, and the role it plays in customer loyalty.
Good afternoon, good morning. This is Mark Johnson from the Loyalty 360. I hope everyone's happy, safe and well. Want to welcome you back to another edition of Loyalty Live. In this series we speak with some of the leading agencies, technology providers and consultants, and customer channel and brand loyalty. Get a perspective on what they are seeing in the industry, what's driving unique experiences, enhancing engagement but, most importantly, impacting customer loyalty. Today we have the pleasure of speaking with Aaron Lobliner. He's the Chief Client Officer at CataBoom. How are you today, Aaron?
Aaron Lobliner:I'm good, good, happy Monday morning.
Mark Johnson:Same thing to you, hopefully all is well. With these, we'd like to start them on a more personal level, so we'd love to know a little bit more about you, your current role at CataBoom, maybe a few roles prior, what you did and how long you've been in the Loyalty customer experience space, and it would be great to know.
Aaron Lobliner:Yeah, I know I'd love to share. So I've been at CataBoom now since January, so it's been about 10 months Been really exciting. And prior to CataBoom I did something in between for a short while but I helped build and grow PrizeLogic company for a lot of people in the industry are familiar with for almost 14 years and so in many ways that was my baby for a long time and it was exciting to help build that company from essentially zero to a significant company sold twice, just some banner clients. So it was an exceptional company, an amazing group of people and I know that we're all proud of all the things that we did and some of the massive things that we built over the years and prior to that I really had a big background in shopper marketing, working for the Mars agency, prior to that actually working on the retail side as a buyer, and so I have a strong lineage in retail shopper marketing and then promotions building and managing promotions on the agency side.
Aaron Lobliner:And then obviously, 14 years at PrizeLogic doing national consumer promotions and loyalty programs and everything. And then it really kind of give me a great foundation to come into CataBoom Understanding. Now we have this amazing gamification platform and what can we do with it and how do we help? And how do we help differentiate in the marketplace? And I think I came into a company that was poised to just leap and the technology set, the product and the team is now on the field and I think we're really in the right place to do that. So I'm excited to be here.
Mark Johnson:That's great. For those who may not be familiar with CataBoom, I know you support brand customer loyalty efforts. Can you give us a brief overview of what you guys do, how you do it? What industries you support and how you support that?
Aaron Lobliner:Yeah, it's a broad question, so I could answer that question in three minutes or 33 minutes. We'll go with the three-minute answer. But we have a gamification, pricing and promotions platform. So it's a true platform where, if we want to take 15 minutes of this call, I could actually build you a working promotion Me. I'm not a developer so it's a really amazing platform that we can do all sorts of powerful things. So we have a library of over 200 existing game mechanics. We have the ability to build custom games we just did a really great one for a huge QSR and then we also have a really, really, really powerful pricing and promotions engine and, coming from my history, I really understand that industry really well and the things that we can do with our pricing and promotions engine from instant wins to fastest fingers and all these kind of different custom configurations is almost unlimited, and so the ability for clients to now have a toolbox of things to do to capture, engage and motivate consumers in very contemporary ways and help cut through the clutter is really what we do.
Mark Johnson:Okay, you touched on gamification. It's a very germane relevant topic for customer loyalty, especially as the economy has softened or at least changed for a number of the brands. But gamifcation is one of those terms that has a number of definitions and I'm not sure if there's an agreed upon definition of it. So would love to know how you define gamification. And also, have you seen the definition of gamification change in the last two to three years, or has it been pretty static?
Aaron Lobliner:I think if you ask different people, it's going to mean different things. If I go ask a 15-year-old gamer, they're going to look at gamification very different than my wife or maybe somebody who's in loyalty marketing. I actually talked about at some point like, is it the right name for what we do? And I actually think it very much so is because that's what marketers think about it, and while gamification could mean so many different things it could be Xbox or PlayStation, it could be AI or augmented reality and all these different things In the world when you break it down to the context of gamification, it's how do we get people to engage in some kind of a mechanic, have a little fun, have some kind of a digital experience?
Aaron Lobliner:The reason we use the word game mechanics because it's yes, it can be a game, it can be for fun, it also can be educational. Think of it as trivia or a poll. The idea of gamification, while it's broad, when we contextualize it within loyalty and consumer engagement, I really look at it as going back to really old school like Carrot and Stick. And so we're the carrot. The gamification becomes the carrot to give people a reason to engage. When you add in the prize and promotion you. Now what we do is we create a value exchange. I'm getting somebody to now spend 60, 90, 120 seconds with my brand maybe more than they used to and now I have an incentive to do so and the consumer goes. Well, I have a chance to win this prize, to have this experience. Is it worth my while to now spend this 90 or 120 seconds? And when you get that equation right, that's when these things really same.
Mark Johnson:Excellent. Customer loyalty is another term that has a kind of number of definitions and one of the things we're trying to do at Loyalty360, we have a new advisory board and committees. We're trying to help define some of these terms that are out there. When you hear customer loyalty, what does customer loyalty mean to you and what does it mean to category and, potentially, the clients that you work with?
Aaron Lobliner:It's a huge question, right, because I think it's another one of those evolving things. I don't know if it's maybe as broad as gamification itself, but I think customer loyalty there's a lot of loyalty programs, I think a lot of them. I don't know if they truly connect with people. I think when you think about loyalty, it's a good. Loyalty engagement program is an exchange, right? The brand is getting something from the consumer and the consumer has to be getting something from the brand and it has to have that value between the two of them.
Aaron Lobliner:I actually think the best loyalty programs when I've looked at this from you know I used to do a lot more in loyalty strategy when we were building, you know, loyalty programs in my past but they really kind of go into five buckets.
Aaron Lobliner:So you have your transactional, you have your rational, you have your emotional, you have your promotional and you have your aspirational buckets. And when you really start to get really, when you, if you sum those up, it's like how do we connect with the head and the heart of consumers, right? How do I? How do I, how does how does my, my connection to your brand be more than just like oh, I went and bought my sandwich and I got a punch. And I know when I get some number of punches I get a free sandwich, like it's got to be more than that, right, because that's not loyalty, that's just rewards. And so do I think when you connect with these other facets and if you think of those five, those five components, the size of those pie, shit, pie pieces could be different for each brand, but when you get that right now, you start to connect with both the head and the heart.
Mark Johnson:Yeah, when you look at customer loyalty, it's obviously becoming more important for brands. As we kind of prep for this, you're talking about some things you're seeing within the industry. You know, when you work with your clients to build a successful customer loyalty program, what are you doing? How are you doing that? And are things a little different now with some of the things your clients are asking for you? And you know, are there a couple examples of client work that is working well?
Aaron Lobliner:Yeah, I think, yes, that you know, obviously we're not managing the whole loyalty program, but we're.
Aaron Lobliner:We're in many cases we're very involved in the program and how, how this is how gamification and promotions are a piece of that program and how it's driving it.
Aaron Lobliner:So, you know, we see in many cases where we're part of the planning right, because, yes, you need your very traditional earn track, redeem, you know, you know components in your, your, your catalog but how brands are using gamification to do things around tent pull events, how we're driving, using it in very sophisticated ways to drive new member acquisition, lapsed user engagement.
Aaron Lobliner:Very common and just kind of really flying to the forefront is sponsorship activation, where they have sponsors, and how they're pulling that into the loyalty program with gamification. And another component is when they have partners and how they're using partners to, in some cases, even co-fund components of a of a component. So so our role within the loyalty program is now how we're going to kind of amplify it. Right, we're the amplifier and brands are using us in some really really smart ways, while on the outside it's like, oh, that's a really nice spin the wheel game. But when you see it, when you understand why it's being done and who it's going to and why it's targeting them. It becomes actually very sophisticated and there's a lot of great metrics on how they're driving very, very specific and measurable behaviors.
Mark Johnson:Okay, we did a state of customer loyalty research paper from brands, just understanding where they are in their journey, what technologies or processes they're looking are and in an assessment of their program Last year going to it was released earlier this year. But many brands are looking to redo, enhance, augment their customer loyalty programs adding the invocation, adding proximity marketing, adding CVPs to allow potentially diverse data insight. When you look at what you're seeing, what do you see from a brand perspective or what are they trying to add? If they're looking at relaunched updates, is that something you're seeing?
Aaron Lobliner:Yeah, I mean it was interesting. I was on a couple calls last week where there's a couple of consultants and partners that were calling and talking about brands that were replatforming right. So brands I think are. Again, it doesn't affect us, we're Switzerland in that case, but we're brands are looking at replatforming. They're trying to find the right platform that's going to support what they want to do, that they have the right toolset and flexibility in order to enable that for their brand. And I think the idea of having the right platform, the right partners. So I think brands are being very selective at having the loyalty platform and having the other integrations us being one of them right and how they do it right. That is, how do I have the right CDP? How do I have the right system around CRM and mechanics and some brands that's around SMS as an add-on but gamification we're kind of blessed to be able to have that opportunity, but we're getting those calls in many cases too, to be a piece of that puzzle and how brands are re-envisioning their program.
Mark Johnson:I'm sure you've heard this idea of see a sameness. It's that there's a belief, especially from the brand side, that they think that the program is very similar to others in the market. They're looking to differentiate it. Sometimes they think that the competitors' programs are even better. When you look at the see a sameness within the customer loyalty industry, is that something that you see? How can brands address this?
Aaron Lobliner:Very much so I'll look at it through the lens of air in the consumer. I have it being in this space. I think we all do. I have umpteen apps on my phone, loyalty programs, and I have a QSR folder. I have a retail folder on my phone. I can tell you most of the QSR ones are the same. Sorry, I love all you all out there, but most of them are fairly the same. They're highly transactional.
Aaron Lobliner:It is a see a sameness Again. You're buying 10 sandwiches and you're getting maybe a free sandwich at some point. Sometimes I don't even know what it is. I think the brands that are starting to really stand out there and disrupt what are the things that you're doing throughout the year, throughout somebody's experience, to be a little different, to personalize that, to make me whether it's really personalized or I feel, as a consumer, that it's personalized it does the same thing In reality.
Aaron Lobliner:There are brands like Chipotle that I think do a really great job. The UI is terrific, I think it feels good. I know they have promotional overlays and they do a lot of special things and, frankly, it's not even a thing we're working with at this point. But as an example, in this space there are brands that do a really good job of differentiating and standing out. In that see a sameness, I think there are many brands that have opportunities to do things. My perception is brands feel like the cost of entry to start to go beyond that is very high. I think with tools across the space ours being one of them the cost of entry is far lower than they might actually think. Okay, excellent.
Mark Johnson:And, if you look at the technology landscape, very complex, becoming more so brands are looking for best in class technology stacks, ai, proximity, marketing, machine learning, gamification. When you look at some of these new technologies, gamification being something that you're intimately familiar with how can brands use them to augment their customer experience? Customer loyalty strategies?
Aaron Lobliner:I think there's a part of it where what I like to look at and when I was writing loyalty strategies at the last place there's a part of it where you don't want to keep retraining the consumer's behavior. You have your core loyalty structure right. Get people to do that. I think weaving in things like gamification so consumers can know how to expect it the experience is similar in each space is great. And then I think you need to have those surprise elements.
Aaron Lobliner:Different components are going to be different for different brands, but having an augmented reality for certain brands, having those kind of infusions of things that surprise people, catch them off guard, give them a reason to pay attention to your brand. Have some fun, right. It's okay to have fun for most brands, right. If you're a medical brand, okay. Maybe certain brands don't have fun, but most brands you can have a little bit of fun and I think what you start to see is having engagements that can be fun and light. Give them a reason to pay attention. Have a reason to open that in-app notification or your email are really starting to cut through the clutter. So, yeah, there are applications like augmented reality not our part of the business makes sense for some brands, doesn't make sense for every brand, but when you can start to do things that give consumers a reason to pay attention beyond, just again, earn track redeem, I think those are the brands that are starting to break through that sea of sameness.
Mark Johnson:Absolutely. When you look at the next big thing, technology is a big piece of that. Is there something that you think is the next big thing for technologies and tools that brands can use in their customer experience and customer loyalty strategies?
Aaron Lobliner:I don't know if there's in my mind, if there's a thing, I think that a common thread we're all hearing about. I was out at grocery shop a couple of weeks back and that was there, the same as we've been in these conversations the idea of personalization keeps coming up more and more. I think having tools to do things I don't know personalization is the next big thing, but the idea of having things that can be personalized, having ways to do that some of the games, whether it's truly personalized or it feels like to consumers, like it's personalized that's probably an area that is a rich in conversation today but also is still very rich in opportunity. So I would say that that would be at least an area to focus. I don't know if it's the next big thing, so to speak, but it's a big thing.
Mark Johnson:Okay, are there programs from a customer loyalty perspective, you admire that you find yourself loyal to? You referenced Chipotle a little earlier. Are there one or two programs that you are loyal to?
Aaron Lobliner:Yeah, it's true. I do feel our friends in Seattle at Amazon do a particularly great job with Prime and I would argue that's a loyalty program, right, just the value exchange. And go back to what I talked about a few minutes ago. I think at least as a consumer, I feel like I have a lot of value from what Prime gives. I've been a Marriott Bonvoy member for a long time, I think, as much from personal business use, I may actually be at the ambassador level by the end of this year. That's quite an achievement. I've never gotten there, but I think they've done a great job with their program because I do feel valued.
Aaron Lobliner:When I walk into the hotel they treat me different, they talk to me, I get. The app works terrifically well. I know my status. People love status. Everybody wants to be a VIP. They've now done all sorts of fun things with points and you could spend them. I think it's like one point giveaways.
Aaron Lobliner:So they've done a really nice job with their program in that space and I think there's others that continue to really innovate. Brands like 7-Eleven have a really great program where they've done all sorts of fun overlays and regional overlays and stuff like that. And then, probably my favorite now I've been part of it since day zero at my last company and we're still involved here is T-Mobile Tuesdays. I still think that program is a bell, whether it does so many great things nationally. The ability now to do more regional and geo specific things, gamification is a big part of the platform and I think there's a program like that so many brands could learn from and how to create the right kind of engagements and give people a reason to engage every week. So those are handful. I think are best in class.
Mark Johnson:Awesome and when you look at kind of going forward for CataBoom, any ideas or lesson and thoughts about some things you may be looking to do going into 24?
Aaron Lobliner:The one thing I've learned from our product team, as I've been here now, like I said, 10 months is I love what we do, and one of the lessons is as we develop new games, and so we have a pipeline of new games.
Aaron Lobliner:I think we've launched already six new games this year as part of our innovation plan. But what they've told me is like, when we come up with new games and I think it's just the mindset is, everything we do is not to train new behaviors. How do we leverage a behavior that consumers already know in the industry? So just a simple example we came up with a game called Swipe it Swipe Left, swipe Right, like we all know swiping from whether it's Tinder I've been married for over 20 years, so it's clearly I don't know Tinder but the idea of everybody knows swiping and so that kind of understanding of not retraining behavior and doing mechanics in a platform like ours that integrate with loyalty platforms, so when consumers go to engage, you don't have to put on the training wheels all over again that is, I think, a really huge insight that brands need to remember that we want to keep it simple, we want to do things that people already know and love.
Mark Johnson:Okay great. Well, thank you very much for the very unique insights. It's great to learn more about you and the offering, and now it's time for the infamous or almost infamous quick fire questions. Looking forward to these, what's your favorite word?
Aaron Lobliner:Well, I can't say it, no, just kidding. I would say the I love, I love compete, I love to compete in life.
Mark Johnson:Cool, what is your least favorite word Aaron: Can't. Mark: What excites you?
Aaron Lobliner:Winning and competing. I've just been in sports and competition my whole life and you could ask my brother, but it never ends.
Mark Johnson:What do you find tiresome? Aaron: Excuses. Mark: What profession would you like to attempt if you weren't in your current field?
Aaron Lobliner:Yeah, people who know me already know this, but so I love sports and athletic training. It's a personal passion. It'll probably be what I do when I retire. I just love that.
Mark Johnson:OK. What profession would you avoid?
Aaron Lobliner:Well, I couldn't be like a surgeon or a doctor because I watched all the TV shows like this, so I couldn't do that.
Mark Johnson:OK, who inspired you to become the person you are today?
Aaron Lobliner:You know it's interesting. I don't know if there's a person I would say my mother was a big influence. She grew up tough. She was actually in the IDF, in the Israeli army, when she grew up. She was a five foot two bad ass and so I learned a lot from her. And actually my younger brother, Mark, has been a big influence in his success in his companies and just all those kind of influences of people just like work hard. Don't take no for an answer. Ok, excellent.
Mark Johnson:And what do you typically think about the end of the day?
Aaron Lobliner:You know, I just I always I like to go back at the end of every day and I think about all the blessings that we have in life. I have an amazing family, great friends, you know, you know just the blessings of being at great work environment and people that I love to work with every day. That's what I think about, reflective of all the great things we have in life. It's not the stuff I don't care about the stuff or the cars Like but it's the people and the relationships. That's what I actually think about every single day.
Mark Johnson:And how do you want to be remembered by your friends and family?
Aaron Lobliner:I think people that know me know that I'm a little bit silly. This is about the most serious I've been for. You know 25 minutes here. But I love to have fun, I love to enjoy life and I really hope people would be looking to. You know, Aaron Aaron gave a damn he. He worked his ass off, but, boy, he'd like to have a good time and crack a joke. So that's who I am.
Mark Johnson:Excellent. Well, Aaron, thank you very much for taking the time to speak with us again today. It was great getting to know more about you and Cataboom, and look forward to hearing more from you in the coming year.
Aaron Lobliner:Thank you, thank you to the whole Loyalty 360 community.
Mark Johnson:Absolutely, and thank you everyone for taking the time to listen. Make sure you join us back for a next edition of Loyalty Live. Until then, have a great day.