Leaders in Customer Loyalty, Powered by Loyalty360
Leaders in Customer Loyalty, Powered by Loyalty360
Men’s Wearhouse: Leveraging Decades of Experience, Innovating To Engage the Next Generation of Loyal Customers
Men’s Wearhouse was founded in 1973 in Houston, TX, by George Zimmer. With a background in men’s clothing, Zimmer grew the business — organically and through a series of acquisitions. Most people are familiar with Men’s Wearhouse from its unforgettable commercials in the 90s and early 2000s guaranteeing customers that they were “going to like the way they looked.” Decades later, positive associations with the brand continue because of those commercials.
Significant milestones built the company. With a focus on becoming the preeminent men’s clothing store in North America, Moores Clothing for Men in Canada was acquired in 1999. K&G — a store serving men, women, and children — was acquired in the same year and rebranded as K&G Fashion Superstore. The business completed the acquisition of Jos. A. Bank® as a brand in 2014, and leadership established a holding company — Tailored Brands, Inc. — to manage the portfolio in 2016.
Today, with clothing chains in the US and Canada, customers are presented with a range of “life event” clothing options, from dress suits to tuxedos. Offering a personalized customer experience as they plan for special events — like proms and weddings — has developed a loyal customer base spanning generations.
Mark Johnson, CEO of Loyalty360, spoke with Carolyn Pollock, Chief Marketing Officer for Tailored Brands, Inc., about building emotional loyalty through meaningful relationships, partnering with Snapchat in an exciting campaign to serve prom-goers, and helping busy grooms manage their wedding party with Wedding Wingman.
Read the full interview on Loyalty360 here: https://loyalty360.org/content-gallery/in-depth-exclusives/men-s-wearhouse-leveraging-decades-of-experience-innovating-to-engage-the-next-generation-of-loyal
Good afternoon, good morning. It's Mark Johnson from Loyalty 360. Hope everyone's happy, safe and well. I want to welcome you back to another edition of our Leaders in Customer Loyalty series. In this series, we speak with leading brands about what they are seeing and hearing on the front lines of customer channel and brand loyalty. Today we have the pleasure of speaking with Carolyn Pollock. She's the chief marketing officer for Men's Wearhouse, with prom and wedding season upon us. Men's Wearhouse has rolled out a new campaign and is also using a new digital tool to engage its customers. So, looking forward to the discussion, how are you today Carolyn?
Carolyn Pollock:I'm good Thanks, thanks for having me.
Mark Johnson:Good, thank you very much for taking the time to speak with us today. First off, we'd like to start these on a more personal level. We'd love to know a little bit more about you, your background, your role at Men's Wearhouse. That'd be great.
Carolyn Pollock:I'm actually the chief marketing officer of Taylor Brands, which is the parent company of not just Men's Wearhouse but also Joseph A Bank, as well as K&G, which is a more regional store that services men, women and children, and then also Moores in Canada, which is the leading Men's Wear retailer in Canada.
Carolyn Pollock:I've been in the role for about three years in retail in February of 2020, which was, in hindsight, not such a timely move, but it's been an incredible ride. We've gone through just an incredible amount of transformation that I'm happy to chat with you about. Prior to taking the role, I had a marketing consulting business for about 10 years, both on my own and then, more recently, with some business partners. It was an incredible experience as well, because it allowed me to really learn a lot about companies of all kinds of sizes. I worked with everything from early stage startups up to big enterprise organizations like Facebook and Dolby and eBay. I had a chance to really dig into multiple different types of scenarios and needs across the marketing funnel. Now I'm able to leverage and tap into that experience and what we do day to day here at Men's Wearhouse and the other brands as well.
Mark Johnson:A quick follow-up question of that. Was there something that you saw across the different brands as a challenge that was pretty consistent within them?
Carolyn Pollock:Yeah, I think it's part of what I'm sure we'll chat about, which is just the ongoing need to figure out how to build with the customer. More and more, the customer's faced with so many choices and is making choices based on evolving criteria. The more the brands can establish that meaningful brand relationship and not just a brand attributes type of relationship, but just an overall business and added value relationship with the customer, the better off they are. That's where I'm a huge proponent of where loyalty fits into that effort.
Mark Johnson:Excellent Fun fact. Do you like to pairasail? Do you have 20 kids? Do you like to scuba dive? What's something you like to do when you're kicking back outside of work?
Carolyn Pollock:Well now it's a lot of work but I do try to have fun. I love the coast. I spend a fair amount of time on the coast and the beach and that kind of thing. My other little rando fact is I lived in Japan quite a while ago after I graduated from college. I still speak a bit of passable conversational Japanese.
Mark Johnson:That's awesome. That's great. For those who may not be familiar with Men's Wearhouse, can you give us a brief description of Men's Wearhouse, how it was founded and maybe even how it was spun into the larger retailer, and that would be great to know.
Carolyn Pollock:Absolutely. Men's Wearhouse was founded back in 1973 by a gentleman named George Zimmer who came from a family background of working in men's clothing. He grew the business both organically as well as through a series of acquisitions over the years. Most people are familiar with George Zimmer as the gentleman in all of the Men's Wearhouse commercials in the 90s and early 2000s where he guaranteed that you were going to like the way you looked. A huge amount of effort is amazing study and advertising about the power of a very, very consistent media plan and message. It's fascinating to us now just how much that equity still lingers in a good way. A lot of people have very positive associations with Men's Wearhouse because of that. The business, like I said, continued to grow through acquisitions and then it eventually ended up acquiring Joseph A. Bank as a brand. At that point they established a holding company, Taylor Brands, to manage a portfolio. Around that time, I think before that, Moors in Canada was also acquired, With really a focus on trying to be the preeminent in North America.
Mark Johnson:Okay, excellent. I do remember the George's commercials and the tagline. Hopefully it's not dating myself, but it was a very memorable commercial for sure.
Carolyn Pollock:Yeah, no, I mean, we have younger customers to. You know, we're not even born when that campaign launched to know it. So it's incredible the staying power that it had. And in fact, as we rebuilt our campaign last year, we really tapped into that equity and evolved it and modernized it and made it feel a little more emotional, to speak to sort of those important moments like weddings and proms, that we think of this, and so our new tagline is love the way you look, because you know, when you love the way you look, you feel really great and it's a very sort of empowering, confidence building emotion that we're trying to establish. But it really grew and got traction because of the fact that there was so much equity in the earlier line.
Mark Johnson:Okay, that's awesome. When you look at your customers, you know, can you tell us a little bit about them? Are they similar, Are they different? You know how do they come to engage with the brand and become a customer's or Men's Wearhouse.
Carolyn Pollock:Yeah, I mean the vast majority of our customers come to us for the first time, either for their prom and or for their wedding a little later in life. And you know you talk to anybody where you. I say that I work with Men's Wearhouse and everybody's got a story of coming to men's Wearhouse for the first time with their friends, with their father, with their grandfather, to get dressed for an important occasion or moment in their lives. And that's sort of how we build our relationship and ongoing loyalty with our customers to demonstrate to them that whenever they've got a special moment or occasion that they need to kind of dial it up and dress themselves up a little bit, that we're there with our expertise to help them with that. And that always starts with that first association, whether it's prom or wedding.
Mark Johnson:Excellent. So I would assume that certain times a year, or early spring summer, with prom and with weddings, that kind of the most popular season that they kind of associated with the brand.
Carolyn Pollock:Yeah, unlike most retailers, q4 is actually our smallest quarter. Qs two and three are our biggest. So you think of the summer spring for prom, spring and summer for weddings, and then fall for weddings. Interestingly, october is the most popular month for people to get married in, so October tends to also be an incredibly busy month and we service not just the grooms, who are typically planning a few months ahead for those moments, but also all the guests that go to those weddings. So we tend to get, even though the October grooms may have actually booked their tuxedo or suit or whatever bought their tuxedo or suit a few months ahead, we're still servicing a number of guests who are coming in in the month of October.
Mark Johnson:Okay, and how do you engage them? Obviously you do. You get some programs out there that kind of keep engaged with the brand after that first opportunity or the first time they step out for a little bit of a storm, or online. How do you engage them?
Carolyn Pollock:Well, we have a whole lot and this is part of the transformation that I was mentioning earlier. So the original playbook for marketing for the business was really highly focused on TV and then a drag mail program, so catalog and or direct mailers. Customers would engage with that. When they come into store to either rent or buy, our associates would tell them about the program and get them signed up to the point where we have incredible engagement within our loyalty program. So we've got sort of mid to high 80s to 90s, depending on which brand in the portfolio, as a percent of our total customer base that are part of the loyalty program, so incredible penetration with the program. So that continues to be one way that we ongoing connect with our customers.
Carolyn Pollock:But the other major shift that we've made is away from a purely just TV and direct mail playbook and into a much more robust digital channel mix Everything from obviously like social display, even affiliates we have an interesting program with our affiliates as well and then obviously our email program. So even in the digital channels that tend to be more acquisition channels, whether it's search or social or whatever we also have a pretty focused playbook on existing customers and we're increasing our ability all the time to better and more accurately target our existing customers there, so that we aren't reliant on any one particular channel via email or direct mail or whatever to actually drive that relationship that we're really showing up for them wherever they are you touched on your loyalty program and the high engagement levels you have with the program perfect fit.
Mark Johnson:How does the program work? How can members engage the program and what are some of the benefits that they get from being an active member?
Carolyn Pollock:Yeah, so they, when they sign up in store or online, they become part of the program and at that point, for every dollar that they spend, we track that and they earn $50 in cash back for every $500 that they spend with us. I mean, most of our products tend to be slightly higher price points, so we have that initial cliff at a slightly higher level. So that's where the primary benefit is the rewards that they earn based on their spending. But then you know, like many typical loyalty programs, we have a birthday reward, we offer free shipping to our perfect fit members and then we also give them a discount off of rentals, so they get a $40 off a tuxedo or suit rental at any time.
Mark Johnson:As well, when you look at emotional loyalty, it's very important for brands. We have meetings every week with our member community and talk about different topics. Emotional loyalty is one that's very important, but it can be challenging to create emotional loyalty right. What's working? What's not working? How do I measure it? How they come to engage with the brand, the inception of the engagement it would be very emotional, it would seem to me. So how does emotional loyalty play a role in your overall customer loyalty efforts?
Carolyn Pollock:Yeah, and this is something I'm super passionate about, because this is where we're constantly educating the organization that loyalty is not a marketing program. Loyalty is every single touch point with the customer and how that is used to build a meaningful and lasting relationship with the customer. And our most powerful touch point is our wardrobe consultants in our stores. These are people who literally cases decades of experience in selling menswear and outfitting men for these most important moments, and when you talk to our customers about why they choose menswear house and why they come back, inevitably they reference their experience that they've had in our stores.
Carolyn Pollock:So even while our online business becomes increasingly important and we use that as a way to build meaningful relationships with our customers too, at the end of the day, really the biggest asset that we have is our retail footprint and the amazingly talented team within. So they're the ones that are having that conversation with the customer about what is the moment you're dressing for, and if it's something celebratory like a wedding, then there's a certain way that they approach a customer. Many customers, unfortunately, come to us also dressing for funerals, and they're incredibly sensitive and sort of supportive of helping the customer through those difficult moments as well, and that is the thing that really helps get our customers coming back is that meaningful relationship. So the more that we can do to enable that relationship in store and enable the relationship between our associates and the customer ongoing as a huge focus area for us.
Mark Johnson:Okay, you had a very successful campaign, the Prom your Way campaign, that allowed the brand to support high school students in many unique ways. How do you think this program will kind of aid in your customer loyalty efforts and how did that program come about?
Carolyn Pollock:Yeah, so the Prom your Way campaign is sort of our tag for overall effort and there's a number of different components. So in terms of engaging and attracting customers, initially we obviously very, very heavy social presence, in particular with Snap and Snapchat. So we created with Snapchat a number of unique filters that customers could use within the Snapchat experience. We also developed with Snapchat a AR augmented reality mirror that we tested in one of our stores in New Jersey that enable a customer to literally stand in our store in front of the mirror and see different outputs in the mirror, and so it would move with you. You could turn around, you could see sort of the entire look on you, whether it was a dinner jacket and pants, tuxedo, a suit. So it's just a really fun way for customers to engage and also get a sense of kind of what they wanted before they actually ended up speaking with an associate.
Carolyn Pollock:Similarly, we have a try on feature powered by the same technology on our website that enables you to load up a photo of yourself and try on any of the products that are in our rental website, and so that has all been really powerful. And then I think a program that we're most proud of is our Cash for Schools initiative, where we've been personally reaching out to stores, sorry schools in the local neighborhoods of our stores and engaging them with a Cash for Schools program, such that, as more students come to our store to rent or buy their outfit for their prom, we then turn around a donation to that school and we're still in the process of tallying up the total amount of funds raised for all the schools, but it's very significant and we expect this program to grow over the next couple of years as well. So it's a way to support schools that are constantly struggling with funding.
Mark Johnson:Yeah, it's a very kind of nice CSR effort for sure.
Carolyn Pollock:Exactly.
Mark Johnson:You talked about the Snapchat, the filter feature. How do you think this campaign, or those campaigns, similar campaigns, will help build emotional loyalty within a younger demographic?
Carolyn Pollock:Well, it's just sort of a fun thing. It's just a cool thing for kids to try I mean, I've seen it firsthand. I have two daughters who are sophomore and senior this year and I've seen it with them and their friends as they've tried this out and it's just a fun way to engage and to start to feel like, you know, this is a brand that understands them, understands where they like to hang out and engage and it just becomes something that you know, just becomes a little more experiential and memorable for them. So I think continuing to do things like that and showing up for our customers, whatever age they are, that shows that we really understand what motivates them, I think is really important.
Mark Johnson:Okay, the Wedding Wingman is another digital tool that you've created, just launched for grooms and then groomsmen. Can you kind of talk about how that came to be and then didn't? How you know customer feedback or potential insights help design the offering.
Carolyn Pollock:Yeah. So the initial insight was around like what is that magic that happens in our stores that helps to establish that initial relationship with the customer? And a big part of that is our wardrobe consultant taking the expertise that they have and, you know, effectively interviewing the customer as to what they're looking for. So you know what type of wedding are they having, what's sort of the style that they're looking for Did they have an existing color palette that they're thinking about? And taking all that information and then the wardrobe consultant uses that to provide the recommendations to the customer.
Carolyn Pollock:And so the initial thinking was like let's take that and bring that to life through our digital channels as well, so that we can kind of amplify the power of that sort of consultative approach to the interaction.
Carolyn Pollock:So we built, using algorithms and a whole lot of data around what we know customers like and how different offerings within our assortment actually match different wedding styles, and we basically got this sort of online tool that enables you to winnow down within our assortment to the options that would best fit for your wedding or style.
Carolyn Pollock:And so now what we find is that if you decide that you want to then complete that transaction online, you can, or if you want to then take that information into the store. You're that much further along with the information that you've got and you share that with the consultant, and they can move more quickly to support you and actually speed up the entire process in the store as well, which is really beneficial when our stores get pretty darn busy in the spring season in particular because of both prom and wedding hitting at the same time, and so our store associates, you know, end up getting very busy in this and that. Enables the customer to either completed that before they get into the store or do it once they're there, and that enables the whole thing to move a little bit more quickly.
Mark Johnson:And with wedding planning being so demanding, it seemed like this tool could help reduce stress for customers.
Carolyn Pollock:And so the other really cool feature that's part of this is that once the bride and groom have chosen the look for the groom and his party, you can then share that out to the groomsman and say, hey guys, these are the the. This is what you need to go and get, go try it on, go to your store or buy it online, whatever or or rent it online, and there's a way to kind of manage that for the groom to then ensure that the groomsman and his party have actually gone and done that. He can send reminders for that. So super helpful tool to help them kind of just make sure that everybody's getting stuff done in time for the big day.
Mark Johnson:Okay, when you look at customers, there's a great deal of discussion Going through COVID. You said you mentioned that you took the job the onset of COVID. So customers changed going into COVID, change coming out of COVID. How do you think your customers are changing within your brand set and how are you working to address some of those changes?
Carolyn Pollock:Yeah, I mean, I think, at the end of the day, what hasn't changed is the fact that there are different moments in their lives where you're with other people, usually, where you want to show up for them a little bit differently and in terms of your appearance and the effort that you put into that, because it isn't a moment that you're wanting to celebrate or signify as something that's special, and the role that we play for those special moments hasn't changed.
Carolyn Pollock:Within that, though, I think what kind of keeps evolving is how dressy or not a customer may want to get with that.
Carolyn Pollock:So, whether they want to go full coat and tails for a super fancy wedding, or whether they want to do something a lot more casual, like a tan linen suit, we need to make sure that we're constantly kind of putting the right assortment out in front of our customers so that we can meet their needs, whichever direction they're wanting to go. Coming out of the pandemic, initially people really wanted to get dressed up, because they'd been in sweats for two years, and we're ready to put on a fancy suit or a fancy tuxedo or something like that. I think prior to the pandemic, though, the trend was for more casualization within weddings, and we're starting to see a little bit of that again. And that's where, like, our breadth of our business actually really helps meet the customer, because we enable them to go anywhere from renting a tuxedo or a suit to buying something, to tailoring it to fit them exactly or to customizing something right from scratch, and so they can kind of run that gamut of how formal or dressy they want to get, based on the breadth of the assortment.
Mark Johnson:Okay, excellent. With some of the economics uncertainty we're seeing, job growth is still very strong. It seems to be strong. Even some of the readings had today still a little uncertain high inflation. How can loyalty programs be a hedge against some of this economic uncertainty with your customers and how do you think your loyalty program steps up and meets that challenge or opportunity?
Carolyn Pollock:I mean there's obviously the economic incentive of if you're a loyal member of a program and true to a brand. The incentive there is that over time you save more because of the discounts tied to purchases. But I do think for us it's also about the additional services and benefits that we offer. So whether it's getting some alterations done if things go really sideways with the economy. You may not want to buy a new suit for that next wedding that you're attending. You may want to alter a tail or something that you've had in your closet for a long time and as a member of our loyalty program, we can offer that service for you, and so I think it's for us. It's about really making sure that we've got the breadth of offerings that meet the customer whether they're ready to go full custom suit or whether they want to economize and go for a much more affordable rental that we've got that for them and making sure that the loyalty program keeps pace with that in terms of the additional services that we can offer them.
Mark Johnson:Okay, great. I have a number of suits I have to tailor coming out of my conference, couple of them ripped and then you'd be fixed. So nice. I was looking for a place to do it. Now you can help me out, so that's good there you go.
Carolyn Pollock:We'd be happy to help you out, Mark.
Mark Johnson:Okay, great. What's the biggest challenge you face in your role and what keeps you up your night?
Carolyn Pollock:Honestly, I think a lot of it is sort of prioritizing opportunity. I think there's so much out there right now and obviously we can't get through any conversation these days without talking about AI and the role that that we'll have to play ongoing. I mean, of course, we're all leveraging it today and different things that we do. Our wedding wingman tool I was talking about our personalization that we do. So, I think, continue to make sure that we're using it in a meaningful way, that it continues to improve the customer experience is a big part of it. But then, along those same lines, I always trying to make sure that we're filtering our decisions with the lens of what's going to provide the best experience for our customer, because that ultimately will be what drives that relationship with the customer. And so making sure that we don't just jump on the latest trend or the latest shiny object and that we stay really focused on who we are and what drives value for our customers and their experience with us.
Mark Johnson:Okay, perfect. Are there other programs you admire from a customer loyalty perspective? If so, what do you like about their offerings?
Carolyn Pollock:Well, I'm a big Sephora customer and I think they do an amazing job. I admire them from a business standpoint as to how they've structured their loyalty program, because I believe it's minimal cost to them and it actually enables all of their vendors to sample products to the Sephora customer in a really meaningful way, and so I think they've provided a value that isn't necessarily tied to offering a discount that erodes their margins, but they've actually provided a value that allows customers to discover new products and try new things, and I think that's fascinating, and I think that that's a way to bring something of value to your customer that isn't always just tied to dollars, because there's always going to be someone who can offer something to your customer for cheaper, and the thing that will keep your customer coming back is that you're doing other things that mean something to them beyond just a price point, and I think Sephora does a really nice job with their expertise and the products and not that they bring to their customers in a personalized way.
Mark Johnson:Okay, last question I had for you, carolyn, somewhat self-serving, but what can loyalty 360 do to help you and your team and your customer loyalty journey, your customer loyalty efforts?
Carolyn Pollock:Well, and thank you for asking that and I think that we're always looking to understand what are our other best practices. I mean, it's impossible to keep up with everything that others are doing out there, and so I think, understanding what are new and different things that companies are trying, what are things that are sort of tried and true, that seem to be elements of everyone's program, and, as we look to continue to evolve and improve our program, making sure that we understand some of the best practices out there, is always a really helpful piece of it, as well as helping navigate through the incredibly complex and well populated technology environment that supports customer loyalty and marketing in general, and, I think you know, providing insights into different programs and features and functions that are beneficial new innovations that type of thing is always really helpful.
Mark Johnson:Okay, great, we can definitely keep that up. We have a membership community. We'd love to get you in maybe sometime, but make sure that we'll reverse as possible, understanding the challenges that you and other brands have. That's great, thank you, and absolutely Thank you for taking the time. It was getting to know you a little bit more. The fact that you speak Japanese is awesome, but also I think your job role in the consulting and some of the things you saw there was very interesting and it was great learning about Taylor Brands and the whole series of brands you have that make a man do their best Right and I think that's great. How you can understand them and kind of their different and disparate needs is was awesome. I know that as much about the brand as I do now and the passion you have in your voice I think comes through doesn't always come through in some of these interviews but you have a great passion for you know the customer, the brand and your approach, so that was great to hear.
Carolyn Pollock:Awesome. Well, thank you. Thanks for taking the time with us.
Mark Johnson:Absolutely. Thank you everyone for taking the time today to our leaders in customer loyalty series. Make sure you join us back against soon and have a wonderful day.